Utah has to be the shittiest place to live if you're not a member of the Mormon church. The state itself is wonderful, but the people suck. Not only are most people here extremely stupid, they are bigoted and closed-minded toward any people or ideas that are not of LDS origin. Springville recently passed an ordinance that allows the sale of beer on Sunday. This just points out how fucked up most of the rest of the state is by not allowing for beer sales on Sunday, but if you read the sign in the picture in that article, you can see just how illiterate Utahns are--"We Sale Beer on Sunday."

I still don't understand how the state's lawmakers can get away with passing and maintaining laws that prohibit alcohol sales on Sunday, or laws that prohibit premarital sex and other sexual acts between married couples. Those can only be considered religious issues--I don't know any atheists who give a shit about what other people do behind closed doors. There is absolutely no separation between church and state in Utah.

Here are a couple more articles detailing how fucked up Utah is:

•54-year-old single police chief warned about premarital sex by city officials

•BYU suspends gay student for dating

fuckin dumbass rednecks.

array($daydream)

(

my dick->ashley judd's butt

)

i dont think i could have put it in better words. mornons, bah!

I live in Utah and I'm not Mormon. Everything you say is true. Mormons are rude asshole backstabbers.

Hey I live in Utah, and yes you are sooo fucking right! I hate the damn mormons, and I wish they would just open their minds, and get a hint of the real world. I also think its bullshit that they dont sale beer on sundays. I dont know any mormons who drink beer, so they shouldn't even give a shit about it!

Northern Utah sucks for an older single guy. The vast majority of smart, intelligent, and/or career-oriented women don't stay in a place where they are expected to be barefoot and pregnant during all of their childbearing years.

The Salt Lake Valley is the most polluted place I have ever lived. Air pollution is a sacred cow in Utah. When we have the worst air pollution in the country, the TV anchorman asks the weatherman "When's this fog gonna clear?" When I was a kid in Wisconsin, we learned to separate green glass from brown glass from clear glass and also save newspapers, metal, and plastic containers for recycling. In Utah they take environmentally challenged children and give them a tour of the Davis County Garbage Burning Facility, which burns 420 tons of garbage a day. Davis County used to hire "Garbage Police" to spy on construction workers to make sure they take their garbage to the Garbage Burning Facility and not to a dump. Common Utah myths include: diesel vehicles pollute less than gasoline (they can't even admit the obvious), more pollution in the Salt Lake Valley is caused naturally than by man, the winter inversion layer occurs naturally (true) including the pollution caught in it (false) so there is nothing you can do about it (false), if it meets government standards it's safe to breathe the air (cigarettes meet government standards), garbage burning is recycling, auto companies can't make vehicles that pollute less, recycling isn't cost effective, and it isn't cost effective to make the refineries pollute less (true for the Huntsman Cancer Institute).

Utah has the highest bankruptcy rate in the nation. Gambling is illegal in Utah, but it's legal for a PayDay LoanSharkto charge 444% interest on loans. It's legal to take someone who is on the edge financially, who really needs counseling, and shove him over the edge just so a few corrupt people can make money at the expense of everybody else (that's right, everyone pays for it when someone goes bankrupt). At least in a casino, the casino pays taxes and some people walk out a winner. No customer has ever walked out a winner from one of those PayDay LoanShark places.

Most Mormons I have met are very nice. Unfortunately, that makes it easy for bad people to get away with things because they are less likely to be confronted by very nice people. This is the same problem the Muslims have now, after many years of ignoring hate schools and not confronting it. The fact that the LDS Church keeps them so busy does not give Mormons much time to be activists against corruption. As a result, their are many corrupt people in high places in Utah who act like they don't believe in any higher authority, federal or otherwise. I say they are merely using the Mormon faith for a legitimate front.

In Ogden there is an asphalt plant right next to homes. In homes within several blocks of the plant, about 25% of residents have had cancer and/or respiratory disease. Despite the fact that some states don't allow an asphalt plant within a 1/2 mile of residences, OgdenCity decided to do a study. That was the last I heard of the issue. The Mormon Faith preaches "being honest with your fellow man" and "living a healthy lifestyle." This is one of many examples of people in charge who are using the LDS Faith for a legitimate front.

The Utah Legislature, voted with their campaign finance pocketbooks in favor of banks, and made new rules to thwart credit unions. The banks (who make high-risk oversears investments and get bailed out by taxpayers when they tank) can't compete with nonprofit credit unions who keep the money in the local community. The credit unions then went to a federal charter, and as a result, Utah is out millions in tax revenue.

After former Utah Gov Leavitt headed up the EPA, a list was made of areas that need to clean up the air under federal mandates. That list didn't include Utah, because they used an average air quality (winter and summer) for the years 2000 through 2002, neglecting more recent data including January 2004 when pollution was "Red" most of the month somewhere in Utah. Also the EPA rating for "Green" (good) air quality level went from below 50 ppm to below 60 ppm.

After Utah government scientists reported that the Guv's family fish farm operated withour the proper license and contributed to the spread of Whirling Disease, there was a major reorganization that purged or demoted the scientists.

OgdenCity is spending your tax dollar and using emminent domain to move out 8 businesses and 30 homes to make way for a new WalMart. WalMart will get a construction loan that will be paid back over the next 5 years with it's tax receipts. That's right, for 5 years WalMart effectively won't pay taxes. Meanwhile, there isn't enough money to give police officers and firemen the raise they were promised under contract, it's hard to get the attention of building inspectors because they have too many pots boiling over, and there will be a net loss in revenue because WalMart competes against other businesses that pay taxes. If the OgdenCity mayor and City Counsel didn't take a bribe on this, then they are stupider than hell for doing it for nothing! I don't see the mayor winning the next election. Everyone I talked to is against using emminent domain this way. This is another example of someone who is using the LDS Faith for a legitimate front.

Then there was the Legacy Highway fiasco, in which, at the request of the contractor, Utah officials included a clause in the highway construction contract to pay the contractor $92,000 a day for doing nothing if the project was stopped for environmental reasons. After Utah officials didn't do their Environmental Impact Study right, the project was stopped. The State of Utah sued the Sierra Club for stopping the project, and wanted the Sierra Club to pay all Utah's costs, but a federal judge said the majority of Utah's costs were self-inflicted.

Utah's sexual assualt statistics are among the highest in the nation, but most northern Utahn's believe a sexual assault is a very rare thing and dismiss anyone who disagrees. (ignorance is bliss)

Utah consistantly ranks among the highest toxic polluting states in the nation. In 2001, about 107 million pounds of lead was put into the air, land, and water. This may explain some comments from others on this website about Utahns being dumb or closed-minded. When I first came here I thought their dumbness was the result of many years of inbreeding.

If you are female and are thinking about taking a job at Utah State University, you may want to reconsider. A recent study concluded that professional women at USU make $12,891 less on average than men in the same jobs with the same years of experience. Recent budget cuts aren't expected to fix this.

If you want to go to college, and would also like to have a beer party sometime, don't consider BYU. When comparing 357 Colleges recently on many topics, BYU was dead last on the list of best places to party.

If you like beer, and I mean good beer, you have to go to a State Liquor Store which isn't open on Sundays. You can buy 3.2% crap at the convenience stores and supermarkets. Unfortunately, the State Liquor Stores do not refrigerate their beer, and on Sunday, they turn off the airconditioner (I asked an employee about this). In th Summer beer cooks at 100 degrees on Sunday. I have poored many beers down the drain that went bad. Only the best German beers consistently stand up to Utah Handling & Storage Procedures for beer.

If you are a normal person who likes going to nightclubs and sportsbars to watch sports, dance, and have a few beers, then you'll be in the middle of a desert in northern Utah. Most of the people in bars in Ogden either hate Mormons and wear that on their sleeves, or are part of the criminal element. There isn't much in between. If you are normal you will be in the minority. In other places I've lived, the local sportsbar has almost every game in the nation on TV. When I walk in the bartender turns on my game and gets me a menu. There isn't any sportsbar like that north of Salt Lake City. The first time I went to a sportsbar on a football Saturday in Ogden there were only 3 other customers there. This so-called sportsbar only had the same TV channels that I had at home on expanded basic cable. People will make smalltalk about illegal drugs just to see your reaction (i.e., will you do drugs with me?). If you let them know you don't do illegal drugs for career reasons, they disappear when you go to the bathroom. In one bar, someone came in who the other bartenders hadn't seen in a while - they acted like best of friends. That person had just gotten out of jail and was later yelling at someone on his cellphone saying "Come on, you have to party with me tonight. This is my only chance to get fucked up." Meanwhile, the bartenders were continuing to serve strong mixed drinks to two people who were well past their limit, despite having knowledge that they were driving home.

Although Utahns pride themselves on good, clean living and low crime, Utah has one of the highest ratest for burglary, larceny, and theft. Utah is the only place where I've been burglarized.

Most Mormons are very nice people. They donate a tremendous amount of time and money to charity, in order to help people who are on the edge of control in life. For example, Deseret Industries helps people who have work-related deficiencies, and brings them along until they have the skills and confidence to get a job on their own. It's hard to measure what that's worth, but I must give credit where it's due. If they are serious Mormons, they won't have much time to socialize with non-Mormons. The Church is very slowly changing it's old ways, which were borne out of reasonable fear of the outside world in the mid-1800s. These changes are happening so slowly that I will be dead before the Mormom Church changes enough for me. My hiking buddy grew up Mormom and is still officially on the books, but does not really participate. He would rather go hiking on Sunday and he does drink beer. He says you are not really free if you have someone telling you to do all the time. Although most Mormons are very nice, one thing I'm getting tired of hearing is being asked why I'm not Mormon - definitely too much empasis on recruitment. If the world ends tomorrow, I'll be no worse off because they couldn't recruit me.

If you want to go back to the attitudes of the 1950s, come to Utah, otherwise, coming here would likely be the biggest mistake of your life.

Jeff

You guys have way too much time on your hands to bitch about Utah. Most of the utah people come here to Wyoming to get their beer and acholol. Utah is my home town and I have nothing bad to say about it. So stop your bitching!!!!!!

If Utah is screwed up so much its because those damed Californians keep moving here. hehehe

I'm LDS, but Utah would be the last place on earth I would move to. Most of the mormons there are hypocrites. You have to leave Utah to see how true mormonism is practiced. Those idiots give our religion a bad name...

Utah is a great place to live. As for you staying out that will be fine . the less of you narrow minded bastards I have to deal with the better.

PS Fuck you and your web site

Wow...maybe you should work out your own issues before dissing me and my website. For anyone interested, the above anonymous comment (dated 5/11/2005 at 2:25 pm) was posted by the following:

IP Address: 207.173.208.250
Referring URL:
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?FORM=MSNH&srch_type=0&q=sex+buddy+utah
Notes: The computer at this IP address (207.173.208.250) runs a web server for Sabol & Rice, Inc. Their address and phone number are 1834 South 900 West, Salt Lake City, UT 84104, Phone: 801-973-2300, Fax#: 801-972-5033. Various email addresses for employees of this company can be found at http://207.173.208.250/sabweb/contct.html

I have lived in Utah for my entire life and it is starting to really get on my nerves. My life experience in Utah has show me that a lot of Mormons are hypocrite’s and very judgmental. For example, my ex-girlfriend was an alcoholic and a Mormon. She broke up with me because I wasn’t Mormon. Yet, somehow it was okay, too her, that she was an alcoholic.

The combination of hypocrisy and judgmental people in Utah is very disturbing because of what it means. It means that they condemn other people for breaking the same rules that they break.

Right now I am looking for an apartment in Orem, Utah. I am having trouble finding an apartment that is not BYU approved. If I live in an apartment that is BYU approved and I have a person of the opposite sex spend the night with me I can be evicted. I think that is ridicules because I am 25 years old. I can understand those types of rules if I was 18 or younger and living with my parents. I just think this is a ridicules rule and way to treat adults.

Thank you for having this web site.
Blake

I lived in utah off and on for 16 years against my will of course because utah is the gayest ass place to live..i have hated mormons since i could remember have beat up as many as them as i possibly could. I grew up in Ogden Layton and Roy, I finally got out for good and i am in California now, in layton and further down south there is a lds church on every single fuckin block, the laws are so fucked you cant even celebrate the 4th of july on the 4th of july if it falls on a sunday.....fuckin mormons! i am filled with extreme hate towards mormons and would kill them all if i could! ahah

When I lived in Texas, I would often see a bumper sticker that read: "I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as quickly as I could." The other day driving along North Temple in SLC, I saw one that read: "I'm not from Utah; I just can't get out." My sentiments exactly. Moving to Utah was indeed the biggest mistake of my life.

Utah is hell on earth, and the western home of theocracy, it sucks.

I live in utah and im not mormon and everything is true. bunch o' bastards. I'm so glad I'm moving to california next year! :)

I think Jeff hit the nail on the head in a so many areas. I would also like to note how next to every public school is an LDS church. I find this appalling. When telling my sister about this she reminded me that the high school we went to in Fountain Valley, CA had an LDS church.

Frightening. I am wondering if this practice of placing their churches next to schools goes on throughout this country. Of course, it is more evident here in Utah, I just wonder about other states where this goes on unnoticed.

I can't wait to get out of here. I have worked with the public in California, Georgia, Mississippi and Utah has definitely won the low level intelligence award.

For such a beautiful state, it is filled with a creepy energy. I personally believe that the mormon religion is one of satan's greatest tricks.

I used to live in Layton and I must say it sucked. The high school that I went too for two years and graduated from was filled with the most ignorant people I've ever met in my life. My teachers would actually kick me out of my classroom because I wasn't Mormon and "knew too much for my own damn good." I never found out what I knew too much about, perhaps I knew too much of the outside world, I guess I'll never know.
Utah does have a wonderful landscape and snow-caped mountains most of the time. But looks aren't everything, I was so happy when I found out I was moving.

You fucking mormon hypocrites... shame shame mormons arn't suppost to curse you dumb ass fuckers... I LIVE IN UTAH and a can't scratch my ass without seeing a mormon church on the corner. Like Walmart they are planning on taking over the world. Now I'm not a big fan of hitler but maybe he was on the right track, oxymormonism should die!!! They take the young inocent children push them under the water and tell them that they are mormon. AND what with the coke! A thought you people couldn't drike soda! Why do you own it. FUCKING HYPOCRITES!!

I was raised by a Mormon family, practiced the religion until I was 30, then the light turned on, mormonism isn't true, it's all a brain wash! What right minded person would wear so called "garments", trust me it wont protect you from a stray bullet. Utah is tolerable now since I left the flock, now when I see the Goddy mormons go to church I have to laugh. Someday they will see the light, how can they, they are so blinded by truth, ask any mormon about Mark Hoffman.

Hey ! it's not exacly true!!!! I am a mormon !!! and utah Still SUCKS !!!! even more, nothing to do in here and news, music doesn't get here ! and if it does with a few years of delay -linkin park "from the inside" is here considered as new hit!!! hhe he he!!!

I LIVED IN UTAH FOR ONLY 11 MONTHS!!!. I got a great job paying me 40 thousand a year. i quit the job to come back to texas (the greatest state in this country besides california or new york) to live with my parents and be unemployed!!! thats how bad it was there. Everyone there is a religious nut job. (i vote republican by the way) i swear to god, mormans are just white muslims, there's something about living in a desert that makes people go insane. I have never met so many people on welfare as i did in salt lake city. i had never seen so many poor white people in my life. most people i met were highschool dropouts and everyone out there was on crystal meth too!!!!!!!! I saw almost no minorities there, and of the ones who did live there, they were all brought in by morman converts and were usually from nigeria and spoke no english. The pollution was bad, i thought mountain air was supposted to be clean...HOUSTON HAD LESS AIR POLLUTION!!!!! Every week on the news i heard about a womans body being found in the dumpster, and in almost all cases it was her husband who killed her. incest was rampant, i met several girls who had been molested by their own fathers!!! poligimy was a debatable issue umunst even educated people there. most people got married by the time they were 17, most 20 year old chicks had 3 kids...i couldnt find a decent girl to date in the whole damn city. I swear to god, the USA only has 49 states....50 if you count puerto rico. IM A PROUD TEXAN AND HAVE NEVER BEEN SO HAPPY TO BE BACK IN HOUSTON TRAFFIC IN MY LIFE!!!!!!!!! utah was NOT worth 40,000$ a year, ud have to pay me at least 500k to make me move back to that salt lame city (but the natural beauty out there is so awesome, its such a shame normal people cant go there)

UTAH SUX!! The people there are the rudest and tailgators!!! I hate utah, and the lds

Like any state, not everybody who lives in Utah is exactly a nice person, and not all mormons are bad. Please don't judge the entire church based on a few people who don't practice what is really taught. I am a mormon, but I don't have anything against anybody who isn't. My best friend is not a member, and I don't even try to convert her cause I know it doesn't interest her. Part of my family doesn't belong to the church, but they are still great people. The majority of my ex's aren't members - but they are still wonderful people. To judge somebody based on where they live or by their religion based on a few ignorant people makes you just as judgemental as them. To the author of this website, I hope someday you can see that there really are some good people in Utah and that not all Mormon's are bad. Please don't respond to this with a mean comment, because I won't yell back at you. Best wishes to everybody!

If assholes could fly, Utah would be the world's biggest airport.

UTAH SUCK! We're getting out as soon as possible! I'd tell you where we're headed, but the people there are nice and friendly and I'm afraid some of the assholes from here would just follow us and ruin it. A warning if you're thinking of moving here: WATCH YOUR BACK! There are more crooked and corrupt people and business here than the rest of the US put together!

Seriously, if it wasn't for getting my career started, I wouldn't be in this God-forsaken place. Mormons are the most hypocritical people ever! How crazy is it that some even put down their position or name of their ward in their resumes! Obviously, they think that this will get them the job! Idiots! And why do they have to send their "missionaries" to other countries? Why? Do they think that they're uncivilized and needs "salvation"!? I know for damn sure that if the same asian/latino/african person knocks on the door of a Mormon family, they wouldn't even open it! How hypocritical! What a cult! I'm going back to Cali ASAP. Utah can kiss my sweet ass good bye!

We moved here from California when we became mormons because we wanted to be with our fellow people.

Oh God that was a mistake.

As soon as we got here, we left the mormon religion because I have never seen so much discrimination and racism in my life! Not even in Los Angeles with the racists cops do you get discriminated and stared at moronically just by walking into a gas station to buy a soda here in Utah.

When I got here in 1995 it was a saturday night. I turned on the telivision in my motel room and thought that Saturday Night Live, had been cancelled! Come to find out, Mormon owned KSL (NBC affiliate), saw it was in the best interest of everyone not to broadcast it anymore. Did SNL humor piss off these people? Was it directed at thier faith? Or was it, that, they made fun of Donny and Marie and "You just don't do that!" You know what I say, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!" I believe in God. God bless the WB for airing SNL!

the problem with mormons is the officials are afraid that theyre new recruites and old might be told the truth about the cultist world and man made religon they live. they are afraid of bible believing christians.who know the real truth

yes utah is a fucked up planet! these ass backward Nigham young followers are just a step above Jim Jones TOO BAD THEY WON"T DRINK THE KOOL AID!!(wishful thinking) as far as i am concerened the US has only 49 states. utah is out of the picture LOL! no wonder these inbred freaks got kicked outta Missouri !these are the most brainwashed can't do anything without approval of the cult/church inconsiderate fucks i have ever seen i can only imagine what the other countries think of us after having the olympics there. them GOD i hope the rest of us NORMAL PEOPLE in the other 49 state don't get "stereotyped" with those low class freaks too bad P.T Barnam is not alive he could turn utah into a circus freak show and make billions LOL
have a great week..

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it hurts so much how much people hate Mormons. I am a Mormon, and I absolutely love my religion, and my wholefmaily lives in Utah. Heaven forbid that they don't sale beer on Sunday in Utah. Frick. Anyways, did you know I am related to you? I am a Udink also. You are my dad's second cousin I think.

ok i just moved to Utah from Ohio and let me just say I HATE IT HERE. it is the worst state ever. every single corner has a freaking mormon church. god forbid they have any other types of religions...it really sucks living in Utah and NOT being a mormon cult freak. the mormon culture has ruined this whole state. fuck utah

I moved here from California 4 years ago. I really tried to integrate into my new town, Orem, UT. I still isn't happening. I would give anything to go back to California - I lived there for nearly 30 years - but I am disabled and stuck living at home with my Mom.

I have never had people treat me so cruelly, and aloofly in my entire existence!! The only friends I have here are a few family members. No one in Orem dares to be my friend because they might turn gay.

I, too, HATE UTAH WITH A PASSION!!!!!!!!!!

I forgot to mention in my previous posting that I, too, am a Mormon. Let me tell you, the Mormons in California are cool for the most part. The Mormons in Utah seem to have all gone to sleep during church and never learned much about not casting judgment, not shunning people that are different than you; I guess all those lessons about celebrating diversity went down the "crapper" when they came home from church.

The Mormons I knew as a kid in Cal. were way different than these "yahoos" in Utah. I have never felt so bad about myself as I have since I came to Utah. This state is full of back-stabbers, two-faced assholes, retards, bad drivers, RUDE-ASS PEOPLE and utter and complete disappointment.

My SISTERS ALL HATE IT TOO. Utah is only a state for those who follow the status quo.

And another thing, why do people constantly STARE around here. At first, I thought it was me and then I started talking to some other people about it and they all said they are stared at too. What the HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE FREAKIN' WEIRDOS? Utahns are rude ignoramises (sp?)

Want to hear how my Dad got out of here - -HE FREAKIN' DIED!!!!!!

My family and I call people from Utah = Utards because they are odd people and they do odd things. We call Orem = Borem because its so damn boring.

I do like the beautiful mountains and some of the scenery, but its the people that do all the DAMAGE to the state.

Utah needs new blood, more diversity, less clannish behavior and less in-breeding in certain families = some of ya'll have a certain look about you (the in-breds, that is). You need to marry into some other blood lines.

Sorry to bash Utah, but you guys have bashed me and my feelings in some many different ways. Its payback and time to tell the awful truth.

Your state is not ZION because Zion literally means "those that are pure in heart". How can you be pure in heart when you're so rude, mean and bigotted? Zion is also defined as the North and South American Continents, Utah alone ain't Zion!!!!!! So get over the holier than thou garbage.

Utah Hater signing out!

I moved to Utah from Cali. when I was but 15 years old and i lived there for about 8 years. It was hell!
First of all, the high schools suck. What was surprising to me was the fact that different kinds of kids intermingled with each other. White, Hispanic, Black, punk kids, whatever would normally know each other, and on occasion hang out together. Those were usually the non-mormons as there was usually a fine line drawn between the non-mormons and the mormons that each side would generally not cross.
The whole state is filled with a bunch of haters. My god, I have never seen so many people hate on California (particularly L.A). Everything that goes wrong in Utah is somehow blamed and linked to L.A. What is even more annoying is how the state tries to compare itself to California. This state will never be California! Or normal much less.
Lagoon. Are you kidding me? The theme park sucks ass. I think Ive only gone there twice since i was 18. The rides are shitty and built for 12 year olds (come on, the bat?) pathetic.
Social acceptable standards. If you are not mormon, you dont belong. Try being a single male, non-mormon.
When you look at all the problems with the state it has to be traced back to the LDS church and the hypocrocies that lie
The alcohol restrictions. Caused by the LDS church and its members who dont want to see a liquor section in the grocery store because their "wussy" ass children will be able to see it. And they dont want people to get too drunk, therfore they restrict the possession of kegs, lower the alcohol volume to 3.25 and only sell liquor in state liqor stores.
The little churchies across the street from schools and universities. Lets face it, if you are not part of the population that crossess that street, you are an outsider! From high school, all the way to College, you are not part of "UTAH SOCIETY" if you do not cross the street.
Heck you cant even drink alcohol on College campuses. what the hell is up with that? Grown people being babysat! when i finally transfered to a real school here in california i was so surprised at the acceptance of drinking alcohol, to the point where i have been able to attend cocktail parties on the school, which serves a great and idealistic purpose of networking.
What the hell is BYUs deal? constrictive learning is all that it is. god forbid you should have facial hair before an exam!
Im glad to say that i no longer live in utah, nor will i ever live there again! the whole state can rot,

I live in Utah and have never lived anywhere else to compare it to. I grew up mormon but was not very in to it and I used to drink with the best of them. There were plenty of bars, clubs, and parties to go to. I became Mormon again BY CHOICE when I was about 22. I have not regretted that choice. All the Mormon church wants us to do is stay away from things that are addicting, like drugs and alcohol, because addiction takes AWAY our freedom. FYI we do not judge you if you are not Mormon. I am so sick of people saying that. WE DO NOT CARE what you do. We are very aware that it is NORMAL to drink alcohol if you are not Mormon and we are aware of what is going on in the world. I hardly have any friends that are Mormon and at every job I ever had I hardly worked with any. No, I am not judging you. I am living this way by choice and because it has made my life better. I believe I am an alcoholic and if I was not Mormon, I would probably still be drinking too much and would probably be dead due to other out of control behavior I was involved in. IT IS THE OTHER WAY AROUND!! Mormons are being judged and no, we are not judging you. We would never say these cruel things about people, yet you are saying it about us.

p.s...Everyone does not pay for bankruptcy by the way. Only if you are paying high interest on a credit card. If you are doing that, you probably do not care about money that much anyway. In a chapter 13 bankruptcy, the debtor pays back some, if not all of their creditors and in a chapter 7 bankruptcy, the creditors eat it. They deserve it anyway. Most Mormons are likely filing chapter 13 bankruptcy because that is what you file when you have assets you want to keep which would be houses and cars which by the way....if you are keeping, you have to pay for even in bankruptcy. I say most Mormons file a chapter 13 because Mormons buy houses early on since they have larger families than the norm. If you owe taxes, child support, or student loans, you still have to pay all of that back no matter what (except in some cases for the taxes) so I do not see how everyone is paying for other people's bankruptcies.

How can you say Mormons don't judge others for not being mormon? You have the ONLY chosen religion do you not? We are just heathens who will burn in hell for not worshiping your perverted prophet and following your mindless life! Good luck with your garments and annointings! (for those who don't know what I mean, google it*&%@#)

YaY! A Place I can vent!

Well what do you know? There ARE "normal" people that live here in this god forsaken state called Utah!

We moved here from the Seattle area a few years ago, and as much as I have tried, I just can't take living here! But we have to because of my husbands job. Unless a miracle happens, we have twelve more lonnnnnng years until he retires, then WE ARE OUT OF HERE! I have actually given thought to taking depression medicine, and I don't even like taking aspirin if I can help it! But then I have to tell myself, don't give in and give up!
Don't become like so many Utahn's here who are already living on prescription pills because they can't handle their lives for whatever reasons. Which I could think of plenty. If you are Mormon, could it be because of all of the stress you put yourself through having to live up to all the church expects of you in your lives? Maybe it's all of the kids you keep pumping out, and can't control or control too much?
I suppose I would walk around like looking like a zombie too, if I had to walk in your shoes, and PrEtEnD that I am perfect or should be perfect every minute of every day.
I never knew what a jack mormon was until I moved here. I figure the percentage within this state must be high, with as many as I have personally met so far in the last few years.
They will say....
"Well.... yes.... I am Mormon. BUT, I am not a practicing Mormon. I drink alcohol (such as it is here), I drink espresso's (if you are lucky enough to find a Starbucks or any espresso bar within 30 miles) and so on and so on. But I do go to church once and a while".
Poor souls. They probably are so afraid NOT to go to church, because they are shunned and treated terribly by the church and their followers when they do!

It did not take long to notice how different it is here. It was really like a culture shock for me. If someone had asked me what town I lived in, which is Brigham, I would say alway's "Stepford", (Like the movie Stepford Wives).
When I go to the grocery store or any store for that matter, people (the females) always stare! I feel like I am in a bad movie where I am living in "The Land Of The Living Dead, and somehow they know you are not one of them. It's scarey.
I am an average 46 year old white female with a family, and not someone that looks like they should be touring with the Barnum Bailey Circus.
But somehow THEY KNOW! She is not Mormon or... she is not from here!I have no idea what is going through there heads.

Probably nothing, since I have noticed to, how, well for lack of a nicer word, "dumb" many people are here.
Aside from the ignorance, could one of the reasons be the alcoholism that runs rampid here? Hmmmm...geeee...I wonder why so many Mormons and non-mormons turn to alcohol here in this state? Could it be because it is sooooooooo depressing here? After all it's the frickin' desert. It's all brown and flat AND it is sooooooooooooooo boring here. Unless you like to hike, ski, or are mormon (and surprise! not everyone here does or is!) there is not much else to do besides drink! I have met more alcoholics in this state in the past 2 years, than in my whole life, and I DON"T drink, but every once in a great while.

When we first moved into our house, there was not a week that went by for a couple of months, where there wasn't always someone, or a group of people, at the door trying to convert us to Mormonism. Asking all kinds of personal questions too. After a while, I quit answering the door. Then one day they came to our door, I didn't answer, (which is my right, since after all.... it is
MY HOUSE!) They knew I was home and they left one of their cards behind. On it they wrote, "We are not as scarey as we look, next time open the door".
I was sooooo pissed off, thinking... Who do you think you are coming to my house, basically threatening me?! Of course, I was really hoping they would come back, one more time, so I could give them a piece of my mind. But of course, they never did, and that was that.

I don't know about the men, but the woman are very guarded and highly defensive. That would be the nice way of putting it.
I am used to being around more layed back people, a more diverse culture,
more choices, friendlier people. I really have not found that here. I have met just a few, nice normal people so far. I know there has to be more out there somewhere!????
I feel like I am living at the end of the planet, out in the middle of NO MANS LAND.
No wonder often times resturants (which are few), and fast food places have so many times said to us....we are out of that. How can you be out of hamburgers at a hamburger resturant????? Oh that's right, we live, what feels like a zillion miles away from the rest of the world, and since we live in NO MANS LAND it takes way longer to get anything trucked in here! I have learned while going to a department store in the Spring to...buy it now (if you are lucky enough to find something you really like, as there's not alot of choices here!), or you are sh*t out of luck, until m-a-y-b-e.....next year!
Speaking of trucks! I have never in my life, in all of the places I have lived, seen soooo many frikin' semi trucks on (by the way) the ONLY major highway Utah has! I won't even drive on the freeway unless I absolutely have to. Between the semi's and the crazy drivers who constantly tailgate ABOVE a rediculous posted speed of 75 M.P.H. It's crazy. I feel like I am trying to survive my half hour trip to town by driving on a frikin' race track. The worst drivers are the woman, and as always, some teenagers too. But the biggest surprise was to find that many of these woman driving their big gas guzzling suv's and vans have their own kids, and lots of them. How do you know? Because the mormon women have those decals in their windows that kind of look like stick people. So if they have, let's say....12 kids, their whole window is consumed with 12 stick figures, representing how many children they have. Great example you are setting for your kids. They need to put signs up, out on the roads "Watch Out For Rude, Pushy, Grouchy Mormon Mothers".
Before we came here, every person I had told back home, that we were planning to be moving to Utah, had nothing but negative things to say. They would say..."You don't want to move there!" "Do you have kids? If your not mormon, your kids will have a tough time in school, because they will often be left out."
Everyone had a story to tell, either from their own experience from being here or someone they knew had lived here and then left. Or just from things they had heard. I have even had people I have met here, who have lived their whole lives in Utah, (mormon & non-mormon alike) basically say...."Get out while you still can. I would if I could!"

I'll end my story by saying this....
To be fair,I had decided to come to Utah with an open mind. To determine for "myself" what it was like. To not go by what everyone was telling me back home.
Well I have found out for myself.
THE TRUTH BE TOLD...
"THEY WERE ABSOLUTELY DEAD ON WITH EVERYTHING THEY HAD TO SAY ABOUT UTAH".

I hear that Utah is comprised of about 60% mormons and 40% non-mormons, give or take a jack mormon or two :)

I have also been hearing about all of the people, recently moving here from other states, because their jobs brought them here and most are NOT mormon.

So unfortunately all I can say from my own experience is this.....

Although I would not be willing to encourage anyone to move to Utah, unless they LOVED SKIING & HIKING & wouldn't mind living in a cave.

I think that if this dried up hell-whole of a place has any hope of catching up to the 21rst century and ALL that it has to offer (before the world comes to an end :)...lol....., it is going to come by way of the diverse people that move here from other states, and balance, if not tip the mormons scales.

Famous quote....
"Utah is a nice place to visit.
But you wouldn't want to live there, even if your mormon."

P.S. Someone who has lived here for several years said to me, "You'll get used to it." I responded....."I don't want to GET USED TO IT, then I'll become like THEM".

One more thing. I left Washington thinking...
I will not miss the clouds and the rain and the traffic.

Oh god how I miss the clouds and the rain and the traffic now!

Even though the sun shines often in Utah and you do get to experience a real summer here. There is still a big black cloud of gloom & doom that hovers over this place, and I'm not just talking about the Awwwwwwwwwful smog.

Rah! Rah! Utah!...The Best Dysfunctional State On Earth!

Awesome site :) My husband and I got the FUCK out of that SHIT HOLE last June. Fuck that place. I hate every single Mormon piece of shit there. "THEY" have got to be the stupidest people I have ever seen in my life. They live in their little bubble. Utah is the gayest, shittiest place I've ever been in my life. They are a cult. Ugh, Mormons...fucking worthless. Some restaurants you go in don't even serve Tea, coffee, soda, let alone god forbid a fucking 3.2% beer. I'm so glad to be almost 5,000 miles away from that place.
What is wrong with those stupid fucks? I mean anyone who translates their "bible" out of a fucking hat off magic golden plates? What the fuck drugs were they on? BTW: I'm not a member of any religion, so don't think I'm trying to just pick on them.

I'm European, but lived in Utah for14 Months. I moved from London and married a Utah mormon. I loved Utah, but the LDS Church is a life control type of cult.
I do as I please, even in the so called church. in the end I left the LDS because my wife was a total bitch. brain washed I guess by the LDS. I'm now divorced and live back in Europe. I say do what you want in life. however if you stop going to Church they turn on you. and blame you for everything, will not listen to a word you say. don't understand your feelings. I think Mormons are child like. they like paper cups, and kid's drinks. they let the LDS control too much in life. I broke almost every rule in the LDS church because I ME. I want to live MY LIFE. you know I have a wonderfull heart full of love. but they only see what they want to. I feel people will talk about this type of thing for years. but only you can free your mind and life. and thats what I did. I really miss Utah, it's a lovely place. wish LDS Members would do what they really want to do, and be free.Oh yes they are stupid too. they think they know everything. and they are never wrong. I will sum it all up now; YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT IN UTAH, AS LONG AS YOU ATTEND CHURCH ON SUNDAY.

FUCK UTAH, fuck your stupid laws, fuck your politics, fuck your outdated archaic religion (CULT), fuck your garments, fuck your boring fucking state, fuck you when you keep telling me I need a membership in order to have a beer, fuck your incest ways you use to increase the size of you mindless followers, fuck all the jack-Mormons, fuck all you missioniers that keep coming to my door univited, fuck all the 7-11's I mean churches on every fucking corner, fuck the whole state. YOU CAN KEEP IT!

The only thing I'll miss when I leave is Wendover, and the shitty fishing that those fucked up Mormon's fucked up.

Good bye and good riddence.

OK all I see here is a bunch of people who have no real cule of what is bad, so you can't get Beer on Sunday who cares is it that inportant to have that Beer why not just pick up extra on Saturday, the name calling shows that you are the narrow mined ones and if you whould just sit back and think about it you whould see that if life was so bad there for you, that YOU would MOVE get out if it's that bad I'm in the military and live back east and I do have family there and i like the state alot and the people may get you mad. but now look at it from my view I go out and fight for you to and all the others in utah to have your freedom and all you can think about is BEER on Sunday and Big Rig Trucks and how the Members of the Church out there are closed mined. I wish that all of you who seem to not get along there could see the Blood Shed and the terror that we as military mebers see every day. no place is perfect and I can tell you there are the same probleems everywhere in the great Nation. So Grow Up and take it one day at a time and once aging if its that bad MOVE

GOD BLESS AMERICA and the TROOPS

I am from Seattle. I am one of the people who found this site about a month ago, and was relieved to find a place to be able to express my point of view and my personal experiences, about living here in Utah, along with others who in their own ways find it a very confined, judgemental, a bubble like state to live in.

The People of Utah (not all of them of course, but the majority unfortunatley),
who are afraid of NOT having control in their lives,

believe they can fix it.

By, well......

being,

overly-controlling!

Yes, that always works. Doesn't it?

This sort of decision is certainly not a new concept to this planet, but none the less, still an important issue to many.

In this case.... when it comes to LIVING in the State of Utah.

If you put some time in and do some real, honest, open-minded, investigating, you will find this to be true.

The rumor being....

That Utah is an ok state to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there.

Hmmmmm....why you ask?

Do your research!

I am guessing that this rumor secretly thrills the many of Mormon natives of Utah, as they would rather not have any strangers living amoung them, especially if you are not of the faith, and into the way THEY do things around here. Or if they can't convert you.
Let me make myself perfectly clear!
Not ALL Mormons are this way.
But....the majority are.

And...the majority does rule here in Utah.

Anyway, my main point in writting alllllll of this, is that I would like to respond to the person who left the last comment above, regarding the war.

After some careful thought, this is what I would like to share.....

In response to this comment that the he had left...

"So Grow Up and take it one day at a time and once again if its that bad MOVE"

I say......

Wouldn't it be nice, if it was just that simple????

That a war like we have going on right now in Iraq, would create everyone on the entire planet to stop and pause, and then....

To say to themselves....

"Well, there are alot of people worse off than I am, people fighting in the war for instance, people dying, people being killed.

So, what right do I have to complain??????"

Then POOF! Like a magical wand or a rain of fairy dust that covers the planet!
All of our worries, anger, hostility, complaints....whatever!
Would just magically disappear!

How wonderful would that be!?

Then just imagine...as a result, how everyone would be able to just get along with eachother!

No more road rage, no more wah...wah...wahhhh!

Gee.....

"Just imagine that"

It sounds like an almost perfect world!

But unfortunatley...."In the REAL world we are living in"
the TRUTH is...

Everyone, everywhere, has there own individual struggles they deal with everyday. Sometimes we blame ourselves ,many times we blame others.
That's how it is.

Yes, I know that is hard to imagine. It's Shocking! But it's true.

Troubles come in all shapes, sizes and quantities.
Just like it does for the men and women who are fighting the war in Iraq.

We all, may not be experiencing, what you are, in your fight over there.
But at the end of the day, unless you are medicated 24/7...we still ALL have feelings that we deal with and that are important to us as individuals.

We all still struggle!

Regardless of how petty our struggles may seem to you, they are still valid to that person, and makes each individual no less valuable, or un-important.

On the one hand, you talk about how we should appreciate more, how you are fighting for your country.

Yet on the other hand, you seperate yourselves from the general public, by basically telling them, I am fighting for your freedom, grow up! As if your feelings are more valid than the rest of the countries.

Because why?
You matter more? You are more important? You are an authority on who should feel what? and when? and how much? or maybe just, not feel anything at all?

I don't get that.
What exactly were you trying to say??????????????????????????????????

Regardless of where we are all living, or what we are all doing.

The world keeps turning, even with a war going on.

Unfortuantley, there are people who are not waking up to the reality that wars never solve anything.
So we are doomed to repeat the past.

But it's human nature isn't it?

No one can tell us what to do, even when it sounds right.
We have to do it our own way, because we always know whats best for ourself. Then we hopefully learn from our mistakes, even if it means making those mistakes over and over again.
We human beings can be stubborn!

So, I say to the soldier. Yes, you are fighting a war, and no-one ever stated anywhere on this page that they don't appreciate what you do.

Did they???

Where?

I don't see it.

But, if like you said, our "Freedom" is what you are fighting for, then it must include... The freedom to feel.
The freedom to express how you feel.
However one chooses to express, as long as you are not physically hurting someone else while you are doing it. (For example, a husband exressing his anger, by beating his wife or kids).
Or by PUSHING it on someone else.

No one here was doing any of that to you were they?

You don't have to agree with what or how anyone on this page, has expressed their feelings concerning living in Utah.

I would hope that you might have some concern for Utah as well though.
I am serious.
If your family is here and you like Utah, then all the more reason for you to have concerns for this state.
But it does mean opening your eye's to the bigger picture.

But!......That can be a scarey thing to do.

Hmmmmmm........

Um.....Better stay in your safety bubble where they keep playing repeats of Leave It To Beaver and Andy Griffith. Don't forget to make time to watch The StepFord Wives too.)
It's much safer that way.

Now, if you are asking for the respect of others, for what you are having to feel and live with in your own daily life,.... ie: fighting in the war in Iraq.

Then don't you think you should also be giving that same respect to everyone else. Including those who are NOT fighting in the war?

It only seems fair. Don't you think?

With all due respect, because you are a soldier fighting in the war, does not make you any better, (nor any less of course), of a person, than the rest of the population, who........ are NOT fighting in Iraq.

No, you did not say you were better, but it was implied.

Like, your life in Iraq is more important and we should be grateful!

That we are a bunch of un-grateful's!

I believe everyones problems are relative.
If it is important to that individual, then it IS important!
Regardless of how YOU might think of it, as being trivial.

The bottom line is, wars are "all-ways" about control when you get down to it.
It's based on an fear and emotion or emotions.

Remember...... that while you have stated that you are there to fight for everyone's freedom, then it has to mean, that you are fighting for everything you see, hear, read, smell, touch, taste in America and beyond as we see it right now.
And that the reality of it all is....... that it's not all a thornless bed of roses you are fighting for.
Every one of those roses has a thorn or two.....or three....or four!

I have heard people here say...I couldn't live in Seattle. It rains all the time!
Well, it does rain alot. Not ALL the time, but more than in the desert!
I even had someone tell me here, there are too many trees in Washington State, (but it's beautiful there :)
Lol....I have never heard that one before! Too many trees... I had to laugh.
I didn't take any of that personal.

While Utah, is growing, it is not widely believed as "THE PLACE" to live.
Why?
I'll tell why. In a nut shell......
The Mormon population and how controlling, and judgemental they are of their own and of others, and how they treat others. Like they are better.
I didn't create that description. THeY created that reality here in Utah.

It's just unfortunate. The world should be working on coming together, not seperating themselves, with the mentality of "I am better than thou".

There are many Mormons who live in other states, who won't move here to Utah, because of the way the Utah Mormons live and treat others. With an elitist attitude, and in a big bubble to protect themselves from the outside world.

WoW!
I'd say that gives one something to think about.

I have friends and family in Washington State too.
And no...life is not perfect there.
There is more rain than sunshine.
There is way more traffic.
There are alot more people that live there, than here in Utah.

But! I have to say...if you really want to talk about freedom. Washington State wins hand down compared to Utah.
Utah restrics your freedom in many, many ways, Utah doles it out when and where they see fit, as only to not step over the line so as we get too far from The Town Of Stepford.

Try, try, try as you may. You can't hide from reality forever! Although you never hear much about Utah on the World News and such. Gee I wonder why???

I have an surprise for you. You are still on the Map. Oh yes, there is no magic cloaking device, to keep you hidden from the rest of the world. Safe, and unknown in your protective bubble!
Believe me.... people, and I mean ALOT of people know about you, and the majority is..... lets just say....
not too pleased with the thought of moving to Utah.
That is putting it lightly.

I believe for those who say on this page, that their un-happiness about Utah, is over the beer (or lack there of).
It's really about not liking to be controlled, or the opposite, feeling out of control.

Ahhhh yes. One of the many things Utah Does control here is the liquor.

Now I am not a drinker.

But if you want to talk about how YOU are fighting for OUR freedom, in Iraq. Then you have to include the right to drink if you want to, and when you want to. (As long as you are not putting any one elses life at risk).

Right?

Mormons don't HAVE to drink if they choose not to, but do they really have the right to make that choice for everyone else that chooses to live here or has to live here for what ever reasons???????

No!

But there we are again.

It's about control.

There is an abundance of seperation that goes on in the world.
Mormons who seperate themselves from non-Mormons. Blacks from whites etc.
The so called beautiful (blonde, skinny and famous) from the average "nobody". The list goes on and on. You see it everywhere, it's all around.

Now, I take offense to your insinuating that because you are fighting in Iraq, no one should complain about anything, because of what you and the others are doing in this war (for the rest of us).

That is a bit egotistical, don't you think?

That somehow, what you are experiencing, should make everyone elses life seem so much better, as if it is our duty to be happy 24/7 because your life or lives are much harder than the rest of ours is.
Who are you to say? You don't know about my life. You don't know what I have lived.

And besides! I didn't ask for this war to begin with.
Nor did thousands of other people.
Really! No one likes war! (Unless your Hitler).

But never the less... here we are.

And we are all in it together.

You don't know me, you don't know about my life, beyond the paragraphs I have written here on this site. You don't have any idea about how I truely feel about the war. You have not sat down with me to find out who I am.

Regardless of what my beliefs are concerning any war. That does not automatically define me as someone who dis-respects the soldiers who are there.

But you know, If the problem is that you don't feel appreciated for what you are doing in Iraq, maybe you should find another website, where people are specifically addressing their feelings concerning this war we are in, and type in your thoughts and frustrations there.

For me, it was important to be able to vent my thoughts here, like I did a month ago.
Which helped me to fascilitate some feelings of freedom for myself, living here in Utah.

I don't push my beliefs onto ANYONE!

But! I have experienced a few times where Mormons have literally tried to push their beliefs on me.

And by the way, about the your advice to everyone...
Quote....
" So Grow Up and take it one day at a time and once agian if its that bad MOVE"

I can guarantee you, it will not help anybody.
If that was truley your intention.

Which by the sounds of your comments.....was not.

So I end with this thought.....

If the problems in peoples daily lives, here in Utah (or elsewhere in the world), were so easy to "Fix", as you have stated.

Then why are we, IN A WAR?

P.S. We ALL need to grow up.
That includes you too.

So now......
With all of that being said.

~In all that I deal with in my own life.
I have never forgotten
about the soldiers in Iraq AND their families.~

Why should we seperate religion and state? People came to America for religion- thats why it was founded if you are too stupid to know your history. People need to get over it or go to another country. Yeah how about you try that and then see how stupid this country is, or in particular, Utah. Get over it. Do you live in Utah??

Oh yeah and by the way. the BYU article you put on makes no sense on why you say that Utah is messed up. For one its a church school and they set standards that the people who attend the school must follow and if they dont, yes it can end in suspension. If you dont want to follow the rules of the school dont attend the school- that has nothing to do with Utah being stupid. If you dont want to attend BYU and follow the standards- go to UVSC which is next door.

To the person who wrote why should we separate state and religion?

This just shows how ignorant you are. In fact the US is a secular state as their Constitution reads.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

This totally invalidates your argument. If the US had been found on religion. This amendment will have not purpose.

One thing I can agreed with you is that the US(some roots in Britain) has been the ground for the birth of many new derivations of Christianity. It seems to me that people who came to the New World did not like something about the traditional religions back home and invented their own and that how everything got started.

Taking a closer look I can give you some examples;

Google all these paragraphs. It will give you plenty on how each was born in many cases by one person.

Pentecostalism;

Although the 1896 Shearer Schoolhouse Revival in Cherokee County, North Carolina may rightfully be regarded as the literal beginning of the modern Pentecostal movement.

Methodism;

Is a group of historically related denominations of Protestant Christianity. The Methodist movement traces its origin to the evangelistic teaching of John Wesley. It originated in 18th century Britain.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ;( There are two; Fundamentalist who branched out when polygamy was outlawed and the most popular where polygamy is no in their doctrine) See how easy is to split up.

The LDS church is the largest denomination that claims to be a continuation of the Church of Christ, founded by Joseph Smith, Jr. on April 6, 1830 in New York.[5] Joseph Smith legally established this early church soon after publishing the Book of Mormon.

Jehovah's Witnesses;

Modern Jehovah's Witnesses originated with the religious movement known as Bible Students, which was founded in the late 1870s by Charles Taze Russell. A schism erupted in 1917 at the beginning of the presidency of Russell's successor, Joseph Franklin Rutherford. Those who remained supportive of the Watchtower Society adopted the name Jehovah's Witnesses in 1931 under Rutherford's leadership.

The above are just very few of the many man made religions that have been born mostly in the US with some roots in Britain.

Now unlike traditional religions what do they all have in common?

• All born in the US(few with roots in Britain)
• All claim to be the true yet they al contradict their teachings and doctrines.
• All go around the world trying to expand.
• They all operate by brainwashing people�s minds.
• They all run like Enterprises( I guess modeling the US economic model)
• They all use aggressive marketing campaigns to recruit people ( From my research everything points out that the LDS church has the most aggressive marketing campaign to recruit people.)

Now I one of those that do not believe in organized religion (man made). However if I would have to choose one It will be;

Buddhism
Judaism
Islam

And now you might say what these two have in common.

Is very simple. They operate in real faith. They do not have people going around the world knocking from door to door brainwashing people and increasing their quotas.

Don't get confused by miss interpreting that the US is secular state and because of that it has allow for the invention of all these man-made derivations of the Christian Religion. (So you are the ignorant by not understanding the concept of law that has allow you to practice your man made 18th century religion)

Please educate yourself there is plenty of information of the internet where the origins of all these Christian derivations these have taken place. In addition interpretation of what a secular state means.

We moved here from Ohio a little over 2 years ago with high hopes and open minds. I envisioned my daughter making tons of friends and playing from dawn to dusk with them. We have as many friends in our neighborhood now as we did then (0). We are Methodist, We have a 5 year old girl who has wonders why nobody plays with her, hard to explain to her that we are the wrong religion. We had her in a pre-school for over a year, she had a few mormon friends there I thought. I even helped one of the mothers load here target dept store purchases into her van. Then one day at the mall we see her friend and that mother. We say hello to them, my daughter says the childs name and I fully expect a small conversation to take place. No return hello, no recognition that I or my daughter even exist. What a bunch of phonies. It is even like this walking around our development, if you are not a member of the church, you and your family will be ostracized.

A question we have is how the heck a married couple around 30 years old can afford a 350,000 house, a new 1 ton diesel pick-up, new suburban for the wife, camper, 4 atv's, 4 kids, give the 10% tidings the church requires to stay in good standing and mom stays home ???? We make darn good money, only 3 of us and there is no way we can afford all the stuff these people have. They either have some kind of pyramid scheme going on, maybe the state gov. supports them or the church I don't know. Something smells.

Speaking of smelling, we looked at over75 houses before we found one that I felt we would not have to gut to make livable. Pigs!! Trailers in the yards, in front of houses, where is the code enforcement?? Oh right it works like everything else only your non-members get the citations. They know who each and every non member is, each ward bishop goes door to door and gives you the we would like to know our friends among us speech, what is your name and number in case we need to get hold of you. All neighborhood functions are posted at the church, if you don't go there you will never know of any neighborhood activities. They fence in the whole backyard then play with the kids out front so everyone can see them. Multi family homes are very common to with the (mother in law suite), gee I wonder how mother in laws live in them?

There is NO seperation of church and state, they even have nice little brick buildings off of the schools grounds for those students who want to take "optional lds"classes. PRIVATE schooling is a must for non lds children. Even the public library stuffs reserved books full of lds propaganda.

Driving around here is like playing russian roulet. They are armed (cell phone) and very dangerous ( MormonAssaultVehicle,BigAssTruck or an H2 Hummer). Like others have said above stay off of anything that remotely looks like a highway.

Someone said they own coke a cola stock, I do beleive it is pepsi,hypocritical none the less. Think of mormons as politicians and you will understand them fully. We made a min 2 yr commitment, hopefully we will be moving out by 2009.

I

Utah has more meth labs baseball fields.
Utah has it's own man made religion.
The grerat salt lake stinks (smell like ass).
Membership only bars make a visitors first 3.2 beer cost $15.
You can buy 15 drinks at once but can only carry two to your table.
The air is visable 365 days.
The SLC county jail is the largest source of income in the state.
Mining coal or copper in Utah is more important than human life itself.
Utah is the leading bank robbery state in the USA.
The light rail system only travels 10 miles, has 61 road crossings and carrys an average of 31 people per hour(see a problem here)
Has more traffic related deaths per capita and uses federal highway funding for dui enforcement. Riding on mama's coat tail are ya now!
SLC police can kill innocent bystandards in a high speed chase (which was called off 5 min. earlier) and not even be brought before a review board.
More people are killed in crosswalks than in most cities 10 times the size. (step quickly or pay the ultimate price here. But we still luv ya)!!
Don't go shopping at Trolley Square without an uzzi.
People walk the streets at all hours of the night.
The homeless rate is six times the national average.
Bans smoking in bars (until the local bars go out of business due to no customes)
then reinstates the privelage so they get the tax revenue flowing again.
DUI's can be dismissed ( Plea in abayence) once the get as much money as you can possably get from you and your family.
Courts order ignition interlocks even for people who have a suspended drivers license. ( ie. We are in bed with Drager Interlock). Only causing hardship to the family. Nice!!!
Probation is handled by private treatment centers rather than the state.( You think they will give you a bad review to maximise their intrest and then provide the treatment they impose on you ) Conflict of interest here don't you think. Illeagle in 49 other states.
Where is the Zoo?
Can't get a good steak either.
May the Real Jesus Christ bless your stupid miners and Get Them The Hell Out Of Utah... One way or the other. (If ya know what I mean)

Oh! I forgot the most important thing in Utah is education. For your information, James A. Madison Elementary School in Ogden will go down in as the only school in the USA to defy history. Poor Mr. Madison will be supprised to find out that Utah is the only state that has the authority to issue him a middle initial. (long after death I might add). After all he was only the 4th president of the United States. You stupid fuckers need to do research before you teach your kids to be as stupid and thoughtless as you have all grown to love and live by. Who is giong to pay to have all the school letterhead, t-shirts, library cards and not to mention the school sign changed when you find the mistake? Not Me thank you very much! USA Today will have a field day with this one. "Party On Garth"!!!

I currently relocated to the Salt Lake valley for work. The place is beautiful. Especially in the winter. I don't mind the mormons or any other religion for that matter. As long as they don't try to shove it down my throat. Compared to california and arizona the higher education in this state could use a little monetary help. Recently junior college in california is pretty much free while Utah rapes you in the ass for higher education. I guess that is not one of the values here or everyone has much more money than I. The driving is terrible although it is pretty bad in arizona too. People just don't have the concept of speed limits and keeping a safe distance. Where are the freakin cops? I have not seen one person getting pulled over and getting a ticket. Not that I like cops or I like getting pulled over for going 4 miles over the limit, but c'mon the minivan doing 80 on a 65 passing you on the right? What is up with that? Thats just dumb.

I'm not a hater. I like this place and I hope it's just a few people that I have seen so far screwing it up. I am still contemplating on moving the family here. Not sure it's worth it.

Good day.

fuck mormons and their bull shit rules. they are only trying to take over the world with their fucking missions that go al around the fucking world. the beer sucks and you only have to buy more of it therefor supporting the mormon church in slc fuck that mormons arent allowed to drink by their religious code so why does money go to the church? utah is fucked up thats why and so is the US and so is all other religions. we should all realise that we are just humans and all religion was thought up by some human philosopher who saw great things but then other religions like christianits and mormonism came and fucked it up all you religious people are fucking shit up cut it out wake up to reality mother fuckers

I love this web site!!! Thanx for let'n us all vent. I'm sure we all hate Utah in one respect or another.

True??? I Think Yes.

Innit bout time Utah listens to the people in the real world tell their stories?

I love the land and the beauty but, I hate the people here. They are such, "Self centered A-Holes" .

Facts....
1. C'mon and get Jeffs convicted. (Get'n tired of that crap on T.V.)
2. You Cops quit beating up 70 year old women for not mowing the yard.
3. Don't shoot people at 7-11 for sitting in the lot to long. Then claim there was a gun that disappeared ???
4. Don't let the cops beat up any more patrons of the health gyms for taking a parking spot before they got there.
5.There are no restrooms on Antalope Island.
6. The gas prices are at the top three in the US. Although you have several local refineries. Thus helping the air stay nice and "visable" due to your inverted mass air flow most the year!!!
7. Mall shootings make the news weekly.
8. About 91% of the county jail population is there for Meth useage.( See a proglem here) !!!
9. Can't smoke indoors but the air outside is the worst in the nation. Second hand smoke is caused mostly by non smokers.(You Still Don't get it do ya)
10. I saw 11 unattended cars parked at the airport terminal next to the main building and only one police person in the building!!! (Disaster wating to happen)??? But I'm not T.S.A. approved to notice such things so I'll leave that for the officials.
11. Nice hole you left in the Earth!! (Bringham Canyon) You can even see it from space. NICE!!!(Google Earth)
12. Religion, I will leave for the professionals. (Just quit knock'n on my door)

13. I can't think of why I wasted my time telling you all what you should know already so I'll close for now.

Again, "Thank You" for the nice web site. You should have a never ending flow of" UDINKS" to keep this going cuz, "It's all true"..."Party on Garth"

all mormons suck! rip off fuck two face fuck heads i need to leave this fucking hell hole./;///

This site confirms everything I already felt about Utah so I now know I am not alone. I visited there this past July with my wife and 7-year old daughter. My brother and his family live in Park City and he invited us to come out there. My Dad and his evil wife were there also, visiting from WV where I am from originally. Well, the family visit was atrocious and awful which I'm sure affected my perception of Utah, but that is not the only reason why I have distaste for that state. One of the other posts here described a 'creepy energy' and that is absolutely 100 percent true. It comes from the Mormons who I found to be aloof and unfriendly. As many others have pointed out, there is no growth in that state, intellectual or cultural, because the Mormon Church is so repressive and closed-minded. I can't believe my brother likes living there, but he and his wife love skiing and hiking so that sustains them I guess. I would be suicidal if I had to live in that hellish place. My brother lives in an expensive neighborhood and the man behind him was robbed and beaten in his own home and my sister-in-laws car was broken into in their own driveway--maybe its all those meth heads stealing so they can get their stash. It was like a fucking oven the whole time we were there--everywhere we went, we roasted. It bothered me and I live in North Carolina! As far as the natural beauty, I was not all that impressed. There are hardly any trees even in Northern Utah, and the mountains are dusty, rocky and brown. The one moose we saw looked malnourished. I was waiting in line with my daughter to go down one of those slide ride things at a resort and we were surrounded by Mormon teenagers who glared at us as if we were dog crap. I will never return to that God-awful State. We were so glad when that plane landed in Charlotte, we wanted to kiss the ground!!!.

I moved to Utah due to a job offer. I am also a photography nut which influenced my decision.

Moving to Utah was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life. Yeah, it's pretty country( I have no idea what that other guy was talking about with no trees or malnourished moose ) but the Salt Lake/Ogden/Provo metropolitan area is probably the most polluted area I've ever seen, and I've been all over the world in my business travels. The pollution is worse than some third world countries that I've been to.

What bothers me the most is the stupidity of the people of Utah. It doesn't matter if they are Mormons or not - they're just stupid. I know people think people from certain areas are stupid - people from the south think northerners are stupid, people from the north think southerners are stupid, so on and so on. From my travels I've found that people from one part of the country are just as smart as people from another part - except Utah. They are uniformly stupid.

Other than stupidity Utah people have another defining quality in that they are extremely financially 'challenged'. Mormons have five or six children, even though the can't afford that many, then buy expensive houses and SUV's so they can appear to live up to the Mormon standard of prosperity. Non Mormons just have three or four kids out of wedlock, blow their money on big pick up trucks and ATV's , then show up late for work every day of the week and bitch about how they don't have enough money.

Yeah, and as somebody else said Utahns can't drive. I've never experienced more tailgating in my life as I've had in Utah. I'm almost afraid every time I get in my car.

Although Utah is a very beautiful state - except for the extreme pollution in the Ogden/Salt Lake/Provo metropolitan area - I can't wait to get out.

HERES THE DEAL ON UTAH.................
(pls excuse any mispellings this font is teeny)

Ok, here is the clearest account of Utah you will get from anyone. My family and I moved here from Utah back in the early 90's. back then, there was not as much congestion, traffic and a lot less people. Utah was easy to get around in and almost a fun place to live. It was nice to walk around the city in the summer as a kid, and most places still had a small-town feel to them. One thing I will say for even then is...I had a hard time making friends who were not gossipy or fairweather. I had a "best friend" throw me out of her family's house when I was 18 because I had to work on Sundays, apparently the morons do not believe Sunday is a day for work, only worship. (I had no choice, I was already on my own at that point and had to pay them rent and foot for myself) So, when I was 19 I decided to pack up and move to Rhode Island, because I found a job there (I was a finish painter and a company up there was hiring, and I had some friends up there)

My life there was so different. I sigh long and hard when I think about it. The people, who were not religious, were the most helpful, shirt off their back types that I ever met. When my car broke down, 2 pulled over to give me a hand, when I HAD no car, 3 would offer me a kind ride home from work even though it was the opposite way. No one ever mentioned gas money or ever wanting a thing in return. I had no family up there. Kind people were buying me lunch at work, inviting me over on holidays, and were always very understanding of my struggle and no one up there had a need for materialism or excess showyness. Everyone drove their cars into the ground and only got another car when it was time, and until then if the car ran, no one cared how new it was or how it looked. I made at least a dozen close friends while up there, good always there for me friends, the kind that you can ALWAYS call and it's never a bother. The men were gentlemen, understood their jobs, had a set of ba**s, stood up for whats right, and were very giving. The air was pure and beautiful because rhode island had strict enviormental laws and made a lot of efforts to clean up bays, oceans and would ticket those who dumped oil in the water from their boats or speedboats. The rent was cheap. Cars were even cheaper (a 2000 Kia sportage 75,000 miles for around $3,500 to give you an idea,my 1996 Honda accord with 90,000 miles cost me a mere $1,300) anyway...now that you've read that.....

I had to move back to Salt Lake Shitty 2 years ago because my mom is disabled and not doing too well, so of course I moved back here to Salt Lake to help her out. After 8 years of Nature preserves, the ocean down the street and good, modest hard working people, I was back HERE.

First, I was shocked by the endless "5 o clock traffic." it never ended.
Whereas before most 16 year olds that I knew drove old chevy cavaliers and modest older imports....here, every teenager that I saw sported a BMW or Lexus or a subaru with at least $10,000 of work dumped into it. Then, I saw the giant brown cloud that hovers around the city and the bottom of the mountains. Then, the endless giant SUV's and trucks driven by tiny women with cellphones to their ears. No turning signals, no courtesy, violent "cutting you off" if youre not going at least 90mph like everyone else. I was (and still am) shocked. In the middle of winter, girls wearing mini skirts...tiny shirts, always a skin show and dying to get attention. (Sorry but in the 8 years I lived in rhode island, that was a rare sight...and its not even a religious place.)
I won't even start on the general "I am perfect and gorgeous" attitude of the girls here who all copy each others bleach blonde streaked hair, half shirts and sports cars. (Mitsubishi Lancers and eclipses are the daddys girl car of choice, and the endless cheesy personalized license plates are just plain sad..."IMSOHOT...PRINCESS...HERTOY....BUYMEIT...WANTME...no people Im not kidding.)
Oh, and forget going anywhere with your boyfriend without him getting stared at like you don't exist...the girls will bend over, wiggle and let it all hang out within a few feet of your man right in front of you. (again, I wish I was kidding.) Makes for a less than romantic evening. Again, I never saw this kind of display of sexual lust or disrespect anywhere else. What the hell is going on here??? how about the old saying "get your own?"

As far as jobs go, its a right to work state. The last 2 jobs I have been at, one "let me go" because anything over 10 seconds counts as a tardy and I was a few minutes late too many times, another place wrote me up because I called out the days following my father's death in Europe. (real compassionate, no?)

I won't even start on the traffic. A trip to the store is a financial and physical risk...90 is the avarage highway speed for all lanes, and if you have any kind of a sportscar, you will get raced by packs of spoiled teenagers who have nothing better to do than endanger everyone else. The drunk driving is out of control too.

For a state where the religion emphasizes being physically chaste and clean...
I have never met and seen more pregnant 15 year olds. Most 20 year olds I met at work already have 3 kids. It was this bad when I lived here "before" my move too. I'm sorry but is there nothing else to do for a 15 year old in this state than to play "how fast can I remove my clothes?" when I was 15, I was more interested in books and nature than making a baby . I had no dad at that point to keep me in line, and my mom never talked to me much about sex ed either.

The "immigration."
Before anyone rips into me with how dare you's...I was born in Europe, immigrated here with my mom and her then husband, we respectfully learned the English language in a matter of weeks by taking classes, and my mom and her husband both got jobs immediatley and did not have any more kids. We first lived in New York, then came to Utah because my mom's ex found a job here. I went to school and learned english, and when I was 15 I got my first job. We were always too poor to afford a car, let alone health care.
After moving back here, this is what Ive seen.

Families from mexico move here, then have 4-5 kids each, and get free health care, rent allowance and drive nicer cars than my 55 year old mother (who used to travel to Manhattan New York on the subway to make $20 a day cleaning for the wealthy, escaped rape and violence each day as she made her way back home) These mexicans cannot speak a word of english and refuse to learn, seeing it as an insult to them. Most of them don't understand how to drive, and the number of car thefts and burglaries here since is one of the highest in the nation. They drive brand new Ford trucks, mustangs, even Cadillacs while my mom tries to drive what she can, being disabled. The crime rate in drugs, violence and sexual assault has skyrocketed here since these illegals have flooded the state. You can't leave any belongings in your car, and if you drive a Honda it has to be parked somewhere visible during the day and at night. The funny part is, people will complain more here in local towns about "eyesores" being built in their high end neighborhoods than this immigration problem.

No, Im not racist. My closest friends are all from different countries. There is a difference between racism and being disgusted by ignorance.

The people here don't stand up for themselves or each other or what's right...the men have no kahoneys, its the nicest way I can put it. They don't speak out against the crime, child abuse, nothing...here the motto is "out of sight out of mind." the people here would rather hear about family activities and stupid concerts in their cultural activity centers. The wife rules the house, the husband hands over the credit card as she spends the rest of the day piloting their luxury SUV from shopping plaza to shopping plaza. I've met one girl since I've been here who is a good decent mother and wife, but she also has to hold down a job and balance taking care of 2 kids.

The mormons. My boyfriend's parents are some of the nicest, most of fashioned people I have ever met, who are modest in every way, kind and live very simply. There are a few "good" mormons left here, As far as the others go...materialistic, showy and just plain fake. Ive been back here 2 years and my boyfriend's 60-some year old parents are the only nice people Ive met. Aside from that the girl friends Ive tried to make talk about nothing but sleeping around (I've began to think this is the sleeping around capital of the world...every female Ive met here so far has a story about it) And most people won't drive to see you if it's out of their 15 minute driving limit or might affect their gas tank. Who lives in the valley, stays in the valley. I miss my REAL, unconditional unjudgemental friends back home.

As far as fun things to do? trying to battle your way up the canyon to be around nature might be something you can try and do, as all terrain vehicles try and run you off the narrow road. People mostly enter congestion in the morning, go to work, enter congestion again, go home and stay home. Forget taking a nice drive or going out, you'll be blinded by traffic and it will take you 3 times as long to make a simple run somewhere than it would anywhere else. Your life here is sitting in traffic, shopping and doing it all over again. I went from going to cape cod, the beaches, historical sites to sitting in traffic and renting movies for fun. Sadly, most people I've met here require little else in life to feel complete. It's like as long as they have a nice car and a hot wife not much else is important in life. Unfortunately for a woman I'm not big on shopping so there goes the #1 activity in the state.

The guys...either immature "gnarly dude!" ski bums who have no clue about the outside world, ghettos or hardship...or immasculine men who follow their wives around. Most guys live at home here into their 30's, something that would be laughed at in Rhode Island, and the girls do the same, bringing their babies home to mom, which is also considered ok. Apparently anything they do thats wrong during the week is made OK as long as they attend church on the weekend. Ive noticed most men here put materialistic "guy toys" ahead of necessity and their kids and the wife or partner is expected to pay her own bills so the man can have his play money. All I can say is Im good...the most respectable, self-sacrificing hard working men Ive ever seen or met are not here. If you want a nice, modest clean place to raise your kids with good values, healthy normal self esteems....DO NOT MOVE HERE. Everyone here thinks they are the most special, unique soul that deserves every ounce of extra attention they can get.

Im sorry but if you want me to think youre special or amazing...go rescue someone from a fire, serve your country, volunteer, save a life, invent a vaccine, you get the idea. Utahns, stop preaching what you're not.

Please feel free to share your own experiences. Maybe I'll be able to feel like I can relate to someone.

Interesting site. Took a while to read all messages, lots of anti Utah feelings. I moved to Utah from North Dakota in 2005 with a promotion within my company. I came here with an open mind and for the most part still have an open mind. But, I can relate to what a lot of people are saying in the other postings. We live in a rather small community for what seems like a large popluation. There doesn't seem to be any hurry to modernize. We have very few resteraunts, 3 bars, and other than Walmart, not a lot of choices for shopping. I noticed what seems like lower standards for service than what I grew up accustomed to, and have never been told "we are out of Chicken" @ a KFC untill I lived in Utah. I have not been bothered by LDS at all, but do agree there is more than a noticeable ammount of churches everywhere that at first seemed quite odd. Why would they need so many? Still don't know. Another thing I noticed was all of the young mothers. I personally have spoken to several women that have had children when they were 15 yrs old. This seems to go on whithout any thought that these are "children having children". Everyone of these women that I spoke to were older (40 - 50's), and most were not with thier original partner, or spouse. You can't get married at 15 yrs old and have a realistic veiw of what you really want or need out of life! I don't know the exact divorce stats. but my guess is that are quit high. We live close to the Uintah Mts and you can tell there is strong support for hunting but, there is no organized range to target shoot and site rifles. Maybe people don't need to be all that accurate here. There are going to always be differences between areas and they are going to be noticeable when you are new to that area. You have to actually move somewhere to see those differences and I don't think many people from this area have lived any where else. When we first moved here we also noticed that a lot of people were either unintelligent or uneducated. We try not to be mean, but more than one laugh has been had over dinner recalling something someone said. I agree with some of the other comments in that, polygamy probably didn't do any justice to the "brain genepool" that evolved here. We have a good life here, but really don't think that we will stay and retire due to these noticeable differences. Utah is quite a pretty state, but also odd, and with all experiences in life, remembered for its uniquely odd differences. Since there is really no plans to stay, I don't hate it here, but other states have so much more to offer.

Mormonism....

The church or shallowness.....

Well Ihave been here in Utah for almost four years now and I have so many mixed feelings about it. The sites are awesome but most of the people that I have encountered are very narrow minded. And agree that it's hard to fit in here if your are not mormon. I just don't understand why a religion could be this way. I think in every religion we are taught to accept everyone no matter their religion or background. And I know that Mr. Hinckley did say this in an interview that I saw. But it's bullshit because it doesn't work. Maybe they show what the rest of the country wants to hear but teaches different. I can't wait to move out of here. We are in the military and just got orders to move. I've never been more excited to move from a state than I am about Utah. I hope things change for this state because they do get a bad rap in most places.

WHY DON'T ALL OF YOU WHINING ASSHOLES WHO EITHER GREW UP HERE OR MOVED HERE, PACK YOUR FUCKING BAGS AND LEAVE MY WONDERFUL STATE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.................YOU ARE ALL A BUNCH OF BABY-BOOB ASSES!AND THE PEOPLE HERE COULDN'T GIVE A SHIT WHAT YOU THINK

I moved to Ogden, UT, from LA nearly 3 years ago for economic reasons and, yes, if you buy into "cheaper" you will likely get trash or even *shit*. I've lived in two other states [didn't grow up in LA] and nobody in Ogden should worry about going to hell because they're already there. I'm not going to say anything about Mormons because I don't really believe the stupidity and craziness in Ogden can be blamed entirely on religion. There is a kind of mindless cruelty here that extends to the officials of the city, itself. I have a feeling most of the comments here have been the observations of younger people but I'm a senior citizen, even though I look pretty good for my age--because women in LA are used to trying to look nice, dress fashionably.

Here's my incredible story: Before coming to Ogden, I had never even been questioned by the police about anything, much less had a record, nor had ever been kicked out of anything or anywhere. But that's all changed now. Because I'm retired and there's nothing else to do, I started attending a senior citizen center for lunch and the possibility of meeting some people. As it happened I met a man there, considerably older than myself, but liked him a lot and began dating him. That's when all hell broke loose for me. All of a sudden I, the stranger, was branded as a "gold-digger" and a "thief". Not only did the man's family [they're not Mormons] hate me on sight but a lot of the old ladies and the staff of that center [also women] began to watch me like a bunch of harpies and accuse me of all sorts of things that had never happened. If you've ever seen "Music Man" and the way the women of River City treated Marian the Librarian, then you'll get the idea--but that was nothing compared to the small town mentality of Ogden, UT. I was accused of "stalking" that man by his family, who even took out a protective order against me, worded like something written by an imbecile--but the judge granted it and nothing could make him change his mind! No wonder the lower court decisions of Utah are overturned more often on appeal than almost anywhere in the nation. What the family was guarding like Fort Knox was their own legacy, even though the man I was dating isn't wealthy by my standards. Like I said, I'm no kid but to the women here I must have looked like Anna Nicole Smith. Gee, I actually wear eyeliner, cute shoes and *sleeveless* shirts [a Mormon no-no]. Yes, I was younger than that well-preserved man but what a hypocrisy in a state founded by polygamous men whose wives grew progressively younger and younger as they grew older.

That same crazy family concocted a story about me having stolen some blank checks from that man and filed a police report. Oh, yeah, a person on my level of education just can't wait to do something so dumb as to forge checks, a Federal offense where you stand a better chance of getting caught than if you actually robbed a bank! Not yet knowing that the ex parte protective order had been petitioned for, I came to the senior center and tried to leave with the gentleman in his car. One of the staff of the center followed us to the street where the car was parked and refused to allow me to close the door on the passenger side. We repeatedly yelled at her to get away from the car, but she wouldn't, so I kicked her out of the way, locked the door, and we left. Of course, even though this woman had attempted to unlawfully restrain me, she filed an assault report against me and I received a letter from the city of Ogden that the center director had recommended I be permanently banned from the place. A hearing took place on the matter and, even though the man I was dating was a witness for me and claimed on the record I had never done a single thing wrong to him, I was banned, anyway. That's what happens when an elderly lady tries to get a date in Ogden, UT!

I have to say, in summary, that I have never been treated as cruelly and narrow-mindedly in my life as in this place, but I'm stuck here now. Yet, if I ever get the chance to leave, I'll take it in a heart beat. If you're even thinking of moving here, forget it! Utah sucks for so many reasons and I'm sure the other towns are no better. There is nothing to do in the daytime and certainly not in the evening--except maybe go to a movie. If you were born in one of these god-forsaken Utah towns and can get out--go! You'll be amazed at the difference in attitudes in larger cities in other states. You'll actually be able to breathe there without risking the disapprobation of basically stupid, undereducated, over in-bred, persons. Ogden Utah is all about judgment and hate.

Mormonism....

The church of shallowness....

Where putting an act is what matters. Yes I was once a mormon and I blame the church for all my emotional garbage I still carry on.

www.exmormon.org

I think you are trying to say that Utah sucks for any liberal who lives there, not just someone who isn't a member of the Mormon church. And also, I think there are the cool Mormons who realize that it is other people's choice if they want to have pre-marital sex (like myself :P)

What does being liberal has to do with pre-marital sex. Sorry that your concept of being liberal is related to sexual matters. In either case and for the record being liberal is an ideology that goes far beyond sexual matters so please don't try to put labels to liberals and in case you don't know what liberals stand for please read below on what being liberal trully means.

Freedom...

...of conscience

You have the right to think as you wish.

...of religion

You have the right to worship as you please. The government has no business either supporting or opposing religion in general or any specific religion.

...of speech

You have the right to express your views, whatever they may be. Only in the free marketplace of ideas can truth emerge.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Civil rights
All people are equal under the law. Any type of discrimination based on race, ethnicity, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or gender is not only inconsistent with a free and civil society, but is immoral as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Universal public education
Equality of opportunity requires all Americans to have access to a basic education consistent with maintaining informed citizenship and the ability to participate fully in society.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tolerance of Differences
Because we are all unique beings, with different skills, needs, and wants, we must respect the life choices of others as long as their life choices do not infringe on the rights enjoyed by other citizens.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Social Safety Net
Recognizing that circumstances beyond mortal control play a part in all our lives, a basic social safety net shall be avaliable to all who need it, not as a permanent lifestyle, but rather as a helping hand to get back on one's feet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Employees' Rights
We spend most of our lives working. Work is the foundation of our economy and a major part of the glue holding together communities. The employee is an equal business partner with the employer, and as such, has the right to collectively bargain for terms of employment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Environmental Protection
Contrary to some people's opinions, it is possible to both protect the environment and sustain economic growth. We support taking all reasonable and responsible steps to protect the environment and the species contained therein.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strong Families
The family is the primary social unit in America. It must be respected, and encouraged in all its forms. Government should make policy with this in mind.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Responsibility
With rights come responsibilities. Exercising our rights means taking responsibility for our actions, and their effects on others.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Enterprise
The capitalist economic system is the most efficient solution to providing for peoples' wants and needs. Government's role is that of a regulator, not a controller of industry, and any regulation must only be for the good of society as a whole, and not for the benefit of any one entity.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rule of Law
Law is the framework in which society operates. There can be no society without justice. Justice means that those who commit crimes must be made to answer for them, and that the criminal code is fair and wisely constructed. When criminal actions go unpunished, respect for the law weakens. The law applies to all, including all agents of the government.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...most importantly, Progress
Progress is what Liberalism really means; moral progress, economic progress, and social progress to benefit all humanity. This represents the path towards a better world. At its heart, Liberalism is an optimistic philosophy.

http://www.turnleft.com/basics.html

I think you're right on the money. I have never lived in a more backwardly conservative place than Utah. Morality is a matter of personal opinion, as it can be as long as it is lawful and doesn't encroach on the rights of others. But Utah is filled with people who have a fixed and prescribed notion of morality, or at least profess to have it. There is not much of a "live and let live" attitude here, too much judgment. There is a separation of church and state in theory because there has to be in every state in the Union under Federal law--but in practice that is not so evident. On what newscasts in other states does one find so many references to a single religion as in Utah, where anything connected to LDS is considered a "news item"? But scarcely anything about other religious groups in the state is ever mentioned.

It took legislation to keep want ads out of the papers, prohibiting persons from advertising jobs and rentals with the caveat "LDS preferred" and the teaching of the Mormon faith out of the public schools. But I have still witnessed denominational prayer said in public places other than churches, by Mormons, of course. The fact remains that the Mormons, especially the older ones, still regard Utah as a Mormon state, with all things slanted toward their ways and beliefs. Are they mistaken? Well, no, not really! I hear all kinds of strange things. A woman living in a highrise, a building associated with HUD, saw that Mormons were giving denominational invocations at every common event in that highrise, even though more than half of the residents were of other faiths or none at all. Anyway, all faiths were represented there, some of which do not recognise Jesus as God. When she objected to such prayers on Constitutional grounds, she was branded an "atheist". So I guess it was a matter of "our way or atheist". What a narrow-minded concept, but narrow-mindedness is, in itself, a kind of religion here, reflected in statements one hears constantly. Look for a liberal here in Utah and you will probably discover a very disgruntled person who finds it hard to find people with whom he has things or ideology in common. Utah sucks the Empire State Building!

I go to the University of Arizona and will be living in Ogden at a university this summer while I take an engineering internship. I grew up with a few Mormon friends, living near the second holy site, Mesa, Arizona, throughout high school. My perception of Mormons based on personal contact was pretty positive. They were friendly, stand-up kids who could be seen at a party (not drinking) but at least hanging out with their friends and not letting religion get in the way there and definitely never proselytizing "Mormonry", as a friend of mine once eloquently put it.
As an outsider coming into Mormon "Mecca", I am at the same time excited and outlandishly disappointed at the prospect of having a good time in Utah. There seems to be great outdoor activities and lots of other college interns from Illinois, Colorado, and Utah to hang out with - then there are the drinking laws. Because I have secured housing in a dormitory, I have no choice but to get raped on alcohol prices at bars because even if I buy beer, I have no where else do drink it. By making it illegal to have alcohol anywhere on a university, the LDS church/Utah state government have effectively raised the drinking age above 21... and to think I turn 21 in Ogden this June.
To those LDS in Utah whose answer is that us non-LDS should leave if we hate it so much, there is just one problem. It's impossible to get away from the LDS when they send missionaries everywhere to hassle people. I was accosted in Tucson the other day by two suit-wearing boys in black, smiling that awkward missionary smile and asking me what my views were- the usual interlude into the attempted sale of, err, conversion to, Mormonism. If there's one great way to be the nicest person and the world and also the most hated, it's got to be selling your religion on a street corner.

Hey Everybody!

I'm back. I planted a couple of posts here over time. The first one posted on June 8th 2007. Funny, it seems much longer than just 8 mths. since my first post. We have lived here about 3 years and it has felt like an eternity!!!

Good news! To the "few" who were so kind to give your opinion on how the rest of us should just get the f***k out of here. Well.....we are hysterically happy to inform you, that we are now able to take your friendly advice!
We are moving! Yahoooooooooooo!!!

Right now, we live in Brigham City, aka The Black Hole of this great state of Utah, also known as, A Hell Hole Of A Dust Bowl.

We would like to say goodbye.

Goodbye to....

All the clinically depressed.
The enormous amount of alcoholics, prescription drug abusers and meth users.
All of the pushy, dangerous drivers. Especially the women. (Shame on you).
All of the broken windshields our cars have endured from living in the land of rocks. (The windshield companies are raking in a fortune here).
All of the staring.... deer in the headlights looks you get, just about everywhere you go, from women.
All of the signs that say "Welcome Home Elder (fill in the blank)."
All of the Mormons that believe that they are the only ones around here, worthy of going to heaven.
To the woman who bumped into me at Walmart and said, "Excuse me SISTER". (Ugh, sorry, but I am NOT LDS).
GOODBYE to all of the bad air. Be it full of all that awful smog or dusty dirt that you breath in most of the year, that makes it so hard to breath. It makes you wonder if that's why you see so many people here on oxygen tanks & afraid you may end up that way too if you stay here to long.
To all of the dumbest local newscasters we have ever seen, ANYWHERE.
All of the women in Utah who "covet" their skunk striped hair do's.
All of the Mormon Stepford families.
All of the vans and suv's with their massive amount of stick people stickers in their back windows , showing the massive amounts of children or grandchildren they have.
Goodbye to all of the Mormons who constantly knock on peoples doors and push their religion on others, until your forced to peek out your window for months after, to see who's there, before you open your door again to anybody.
To all of Utah's Mormon's excessive & controlling rules, laws & regulations, that force you to live a very primitive way of life.
To the lack of diversity here. Iv'e seen 5 black people and one asian in the last 3 years.
Goodbye to the mounds of judgementalism that runs rampid here from too much of the Mormon community. (Which adds up to about 60% here in Utah).
To all of the Mormon kids here, who get married, just so they can have sex.
(How sad is that?)
To all of the Mormon parents that teach their children that one of their prime objectives in life is to go out, get married young, and have lots and lots of babies.
Cover the earth with Mormons!!!!
Goodbye to the lack of choices when it comes to shopping here. Everything they sell in the stores for your home is either brown or black and it all looks the same. Cookie cutter decor for Utah's cookie cutter way of living. It's one way, and one way only! The Mormon way.
Goodbye to all of the empty shelves, in the grocery stores. It's pretty bad when you go to buy milk, and many times they are either out of milk or the expiration date comes due in 2 day's. I have never experienced that anywhere else outside of Utah, and it has been common place here.
And last, but certainly not least.
A hearty and happy goodbye to the array of businesses that have been called to come out and fix different things at our house over the years, and they either don't answer their phones, don't call back, or don't show up! We can't figure out if their lazy, or just don't have enough competition around to care. Or maybe you have to be Mormon to get better service. Who knows!? Anybody??????
When we get to where we are going, I am going to kiss the ground and hug the first tree I see! Oh how I miss "trees".
Then we'll join the ranks of all of the different people who originally advised us before we moved here, that moving to Utah was a reeeeally bad decision.
The only thing I will miss about Utah is.........
Uhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........
I can't think of a damn thing!
Words of advice to anyone thinking of moving here.
If you are a judgemental mormon, who prefers to live life in a box.
This place is for you!
Everyone else.......stay far, far away!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, there's a whole lot more I could say, but....
I have to go pack! :o)

I moved here about six years ago because my husband is from here and wanted to be near his ailing grandmother who raised him. Mostly I don't pay attention to the Mormons. I'm from the East Coast and never payed much attention to the Catholics, Protestants, Atheists, Agnostics, Hare Krishnas, Moonies, Satanists, and what-have-you-theres, either. I try not to pay too much attention to the ex-Mormons because I find it hard to relate to the past/war stories, but a lot of them are my friends and I try to show my support by offering a cool, cool beer hijacked from another state.

BUT, I do know about the stupidity. I've worked in jobs here where people couldn't literally add two plus two, and they were managing other people. I've had contractors show up at my door who didn't know how to read a ruler, but are somehow licensed and insured to work on my house. These clowns have done everything from hooking up a water line to a non-potable water supply, to forgetting to hook up the line to the fridge so that I had a flood in my kitchen. They inspected the house and never found the 49 glaring things wrong with the place. They put in a booster pump for a furnace backward and upside down. They put in another furnace and tried to hook up the electric to a fuse that was already overloaded. They soldered the wrong pipe in the wrong room. They hooked an electric socket to a flourescent light fixture, and forgot to wire the bathroom to the new fusebox. They installed new windows and didn't get the right measurements. They installed new windows and didn't wrap the window sills. They installed a water heater but didn't install the piping correctly. They took out two feet of back yard concrete and abandoned the job because it was too muddy. They took out the concrete then dumped it all on the curb so that I could incur a nice hefty fine from the city. They took out the concrete, and half the house with it. NEED I SAY MORE.

Yes, they can be very corrupt. Mormon, and non-Mormon alike. Here, you have to dot your i's and cross your every t, and God help you if you are not so bright and not so assertive or even aggressive because they will take every legal and illegal advantage of you. Fortunately, I have very sharp teeth and very long claws and all the cojones any woman could ever hope to beg, borrow or steal, so they don't f*** over me the way they do everyone else. God also help you if you have to go to court, especially small claims. The process servers don't really serve anyone, lose your paperwork, and don't let you know until your court date is due. The lawyers tell you they don't need your money. They tell you the courts are not set up to give you any justice, but they are set so that you pay so much that you work it out with your neighbor, instead (right, work it out with an A-K, you mean).

It's very interesting being a woman here. You are not taken very seriously. Trying to buy a car, or a house, or just about anything else, they tend to talk to my husband and look right through me as if I wasn't standing there. Which is okay because I'm the one with the money, not him. Then they wonder why we don't bother buying anything, or calling them back.

It's a very strange place with some very strange people. They do stare at you an awful lot everywhere you go, that's not made up in the posts either, it's true, especially if you're not Casper-ghost white with equally white hair. And it's also true that they are horrible drivers. Yes, they tailgate like nothing I've ever seen anywhere else, and most of the time you drive with a bedpan beneath your bum because that's how badly some of these freaking people can scare you. I don't know when it became fashionable to be an a**hole but you get that a lot also, and ignorant rudeness abounds. I once went to a Tony Romas here (now defunct) and the girl who waited (?) on us refused to serve me and winked at my husband as we got up to leave, five minutes after we got there. Again, some pretty strange people exist here, but then I've seen some pretty strange people all over the world.

The wages are really bad. You'd be amazed what some of these companies/businesses expect you to do for next-to-nothing, and the cost of living is really high. The real estate is out of the world, and it is true a lot of the stuff you look at as far as housing is unbelievably filthy/outdated and just plain run into the ground. There is an inordinate amount of greed--everybody has their hand out. It's also true that there are a good deal of people who think they know it all, have horrible attitudes, are self-absorbed, and have embarrassing temper tantrums. Some of the women are hilarious in that they're so petite and even runty, yet think they can take on the world.

But you also meet some true gems, I mean absolutely lovely people, whether Mormon, or not, so I wouldn't be fair in generalizing about anyone. But yes, most everything in these posts are fairly very much on the mark.